Dharma and Life

A Dialogue between Geshe Jampa Gelek,

Alexandra Grigorescu and Romanian attendees

June 2023, Pitesti, Romania

Simultaneous Translation from Tibetan: Lotsawa Thubten Sherab

Transcript and edit: Veronica Anghelescu

Alexandra Grigorescu: So, dear guests, welcome again to Pitesti Cultural Center. We are very happy to receive you here with your wisdom, with your knowledge, that we are expecting for you to share with us. Thank you and welcome your staying here. Thank you. Nowadays, we tend to forget the value of the soul, of morality, we forget to love nature, phenomena and beings, we forget to be humble.

The refuge we have chosen is that of money, of pleasure or pleasure of senses, the fact that it contradicts the essence of the immortal life we have, the essence that is nothing but the seed from which the soul is born and later the infinite light. All our actions, guided by instincts and self-centeredness, lead us to karma, to suffering in this world and to rebirth in the lower realms, where there is more suffering, comfort, and the teachings of the great religions of the world. Dharma generates a positive purpose in life, it is the practice of religion, it is the proof that we give to the universe that we do something for our salvation, not only waiting for others to do it for us, while we are fighting for our own pleasures and we are immoral. Dharma is the teaching that guides us on the path to enlightenment. The mysteries of Tibet fascinated generations throughout time, and it is clear that in an esoteric society, that the Tibetan people have opened up and decided to pass on the keys necessary for the initial journey.

Today I have chosen to ask some questions and I will start with the first question. And we hope that until the end of the show we will understand what these mysteries are, we will get to the point where we will be able to answer them.

We face many problems and sufferings in life. Where can we find a refuge?

Geshe Jampa Gelek, transl. Lotsawa Thubten Sherab: So to answer this question, I would say in our life we have different types of human beings, those who believe in religion, those who do not believe in religions, and then all encounter, as the question says, all encounter some problems and some sufferings. So when this happens, I think the good solution, authentic solution is to rely on authentic refuge; from a Buddhist point of view, one can find an authentic refuge. And what is that authentic refuge? This authentic refuge refers to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. And Buddha is considered in Buddhism like a guide.

A.G.: Guide, or deity?

G.J.G.: Guide.

A.G.: Guide. Like from somebody who shows the path.

G.J.G.: Yes. So, Buddha is considered a guide in Buddhism. And then, the Dharma is considered as the real refuge – Dharma being the teaching. The Sangha are the people who help on the path. So in Buddhism we compare these three refuges in the following way. So we take the example of a doctor. The doctor, in this case, is the Buddha. And then we have the Dharma which is like considered as the medicine, because Buddha gives the teachings, and that teaching is the medicine. But then that teaching alone is not enough. That teaching has to be practiced. The nurses in the hospital are necessary to help the doctor, to give help to the patients.

Dharma is a method to make us happy in this life, and to also provide happiness for the future. The Dharma helps us to calm our mind. While we live, we prepare ourselves to have temporary happiness and future happiness, ultimate happiness. In the future, Dharma prepares us to have temporary happiness and permanent happiness. Ultimate happiness. So for this, the Buddha said: I simply show the path to you. You are the one who chooses to walk on it, or not.

But then, I also should say that when Buddha gave teachings, he always had two levels of meanings: provisory meaning and definitive meaning. So this means that the Buddha gave teachings always according to the need of different levels of beings. So therefore, sometimes, the teachings need some interpretation. And sometimes the words are directly acceptable.

A.G.: The words?

G.J.G.: The words are directly acceptable, as it says. It is exactly the same as a wise doctor who knows how to treat the patients. Because the doctor who is wise, he gives a certain medicine; if another patient comes, then the doctor may not give the same medicine. So the doctor gives different medicine for the sake of the patient. So this is why we have the two levels of meanings in the Buddhist teachings. Definitive meaning and provisory meaning.

A.G.: How can we know in this context, in which the teaching is so precious, and we want to follow an authentic teaching, how can we know, how can we make the difference whether the teaching is authentic or not? And how can we know that we are on the right path, which is not in the current context of the multiple religious sects that have appeared around us? The one that suits us in the current context of the multiple religious sects that have appeared.

G.J.G.: So, to know if the teaching of the Dharma is authentic or not, we can have three factors. The three factors are the following. First thing is to know if the teaching is mentioned in one of the 100 volumes of Buddha’s words. There are 100 volumes.

The second factor is to know is to know if it has been investigated and if it has been commented upon by an Indian Master from Nalanda Monastery, from Nalanda Monastery in India.

The third factor is to know, to see if the yogis have meditated and if they have had some realization.

Regarding the final part of the question, how to know if it is the right path or not… at the end of the day we should be able to ascertain whether it is true from the point of view of reason. We have scriptural proof, and we have reasonable proof. So we can base our understanding on reason, the logic.

We know that in the world there are so many religions. We cannot say this is the best, this is difficult to say. Whether something is best or not, it is a question of the personal need, because each person has different tastes, different kinds of needs. So, for some, a particular religion is necessary. And for some others, that religion is not necessary. So, therefore, at the end, it’s all a question of the needs of each individual. For this reason, the religions are exactly like medicines. You know, there are different kinds of medicines in the pharmacy. And these medicines are good for some people, and some are not good. So in the end, all medicines are good. So in the same way, the religions are also necessary, you know, for each individual’s needs.

For example, the Buddha taught the theory of selflessness. And the Buddha taught us about the lack of anger. And about emptiness. But then, Buddha said, no, this is not the best teaching, because there are some people for whom this teaching is not suitable. So for those people, Buddha gave different other teachings, according to the needs of those people. So I think all religions are completely positive. For this reason, we have to have respect to any kind of religion on this earth.

A.G.: In our daily life, when we participate in the rituals, is it more important to examine our thoughts, our speech and the way we act, or to be more attentive to those around us? Also: is the mind our cause of happiness and suffering, or are those around us guilty of our suffering and our joy?

G.J.G.: First of all, in Buddhism, it is said that the purpose of the Dharma is to change our mind, but not to change our body. So this means the main point is to observe our own mind.

A.G.: To observe, you said? Observe?

G.J.G.: To observe. To see ourselves. And to improve our mind. And then we develop a certain mental quality. The Buddha said, if the mind is subdued, there is happiness. But if the mind is not subdued, then there are sufferings.

A.G.: Which is the solution in order not to generate negative energy through our souls, through our mind and of course through our deeds?

G.J.G.: To answer the question, Buddha simply said that we should be fully aware, to look at our own mistakes. But then, regarding the faults of other people, we should behave like blind people.

A.G.: Blind. This means… So you mean to be blind to the mistakes of the other one?

G.J.G.: Yes. In Buddhism, we have one thing called the delusion. So the delusion means a wrong thought. And this wrong thought always sees objects in the wrong way. Therefore, all our problems in samsara, in our life, come from this wrong attitude. So therefore the solution is to resolve all our past delusions. So, we should come to try to solve it, because the solution is a long way.

So this means the delusion is a wrong thought, therefore it is something that we can remove. And to remove that, we need to have an antidote. That antidote is the right thought, the correct mind. And the correct thought always has a valid support. So when that valid support is improved more and more, then we overcome the delusions. In Buddhism, we say that our main enemy is inside, in ourselves.

A.G.: Our way of functioning is to run away from suffering and to seek the pleasures and joys of life. But is this correct?

G.J.G.: We have a type of happiness that is temporary. And then there is everlasting happiness. We know that the happiness that we have in our society is only temporary. And to have the real happiness, the everlasting happiness, we have to overcome our ignorance, to eliminate ignorance; then, we become completely free of all kinds of sufferings.

The happiness we have in our life is not a real happiness. The happiness we have is only a question of a changing of the temporary sufferings. So, people think that when we have some kind of happiness, we think oh we are happy, we believe like this. But when that happiness transforms in suffering, then we have another kind of feeling. So at the end, you know, the real happiness is not there.

Now, what does the changing of suffering mean? It means, you know, in summertime, for example, when it is very hot, then we suffer. So then, we come to a cold room, a cold place. So the suffering of heat is now changed into a happiness of freshness, and after a while, it becomes another suffering. Being in the cold place slowly, slowly we are cold, and we suffer again.

So the bottom line is, all types of happiness we have in samsara are not true, not real. If they were real, then we should be always experiencing happiness all the time. But unfortunately no. We first have heat, we feel happiness, then we are cold, we have another suffering, so it’s always changing. All contaminated happiness is suffering. For this reason, Buddha said that anything that is free, is happiness. Anybody who is under the control of something, is suffering.

The fact that we are born in samsara is because we are forced by karma and delusion, which means we are not free of the power of this karma and delusion. We are not free.

A.G.: How important is it to have a spiritual leader, a guru to guide us on the spiritual path?

G.J.G.: So let’s say we have, you know, our present life and future life. So already for the present life we need a teacher. To learn mathematics. To learn drawing. And so on. So these are all visible things. Even for something physical, we need to depend on the teacher. So this means for the future life, where we have to deal with our mind, then we need definitely more, you know, a teacher in that case, because it’s something more important. How to master our mind? We need a guide.

A.G.: Can the luminous nature of our mind be a guide on the way? Can we trust it?

G.J.G.: So, first of all, when the question says, “the luminous nature of mind” – it talks about what the mind looks like, how the mind is. So it is a non-physical object that moves from past life to present life. And the nature of the mind is that it has that has a lot of capacity. At the same time it has many many adventitious stains, like temporary coverings. And these temporary coverings are not inseparable.

There are many layers of the mind. Many coverings. And these layers are removable. So, when they are removed, the mind itself is completely clear. We can explain this with some examples. Gold – the metal – remains hidden underground for a long time. Therefore, it is dirty. But then the nature of the gold is always clean. So this means the dirt and the gold are separable.

Also, for example, another example is the water. Water is dirty when it is stirred. When it is stirred, it has dirt, dust. But if we no longer stir it, water becomes calm and clean by itself.

Then the third example is the space, the sky. The space is, you know, is clear by nature. But it may be temporarily covered by many kinds of clouds. So this means that clouds and the skies are separable.

A.G.: What is the solution to open our heart to really love others?

G.J.G.: We have this term in the Tibetan Buddhism, bodhicitta; this bodhicitta is very precious in Buddhism, we say. And why it is precious? It’s because it always considers the other people more important than ourselves. And also, when we open our heart to other people, also the other people appreciate so much.

When a person generates bodhicitta, we say that it becomes a Bodhisattva. And this Bodhisattva knows that we are all the same – in the sense of wanting happiness and wanting to avoid sufferings. And therefore, the Bodhisattva is always aware of helping other beings. Then, the Bodhisattva also knows that selfishness is damaging – what is selfishness? It is the attitude of always thinking about oneself, only one person, oneself, himself, or herself. Whereas when they generate bodhicitta, the bodhisattva thinks of numberless sentient beings.

For this reason, Shantideva the great master from Nalanda monastery, who was a Bodhisattva, said as the following: all happiness in this world comes from altruism. All sufferings existing in this world come from egoism. People have strong ego, saying all the time, I am, all the time.

A.G.: How can we transcend duality?

G.J.G.: So before talking about transcending the duality, we have to know what duality means.

Duality is of three types. One type is the duality of conventional appearance, conventionality. The second type of duality is the object of negation – when we talk about ultimate truth. Then we have third type of duality, and this refers to the appearance of a subject and object.

So to transcend these three dualities, when one has that realization, that mind is absorbing only emptiness. And there is no appearance of any of these three dualities. None of these three dualities. It is too technical a discussion and it should be developed in a separate session.

A.G.: As I see it… we should see ourselves as one with everything that surrounds us, not separated, and then we will be free of all the three types of dualities. To escape of our ego, in conclusion.

G.J.G.: Yes, more or less.

When ignorance is present, we always think that the things exist from their own side. But in reality, all phenomena are arising only by depending on others. So there is the understanding of emptiness.

A.G.: So, thank you again to everyone, thank you to the sponsors who made this wonderful meeting possible. Thank you for participating. It was very interesting to share, to receive from your wisdom and to share with us from your wisdom.